Deborah Meints-Pierson, LMFT

Deborah is a master therapist (licensed for over 35 years), spiritual teacher, television host, author and 3rd generation intuitive. She has helped transform the lives of thousands of people around the world. Her pioneering approach bridges Psychology, Spirituality and the Mystic Tools. Deborah is a sought out authority in the field of psychology and has served as a Palm Springs psychological expert for TV, radio & print. She wrote and Co-Hosted the popular television program "It's A Family Affair" on Time Warner Television for over a decade. Deborah has been featured in numerous shows, radio programs and publications including NBC, ABC, K-News Voice of The Valley, Desert Sun Newspaper, Desert Woman magazine and Health & Spirituality magazine.

When Deborah is not transforming lives you can find her hiking in the beautiful desert, music jamming with friends, dancing, practicing yoga, reading, & writing poetry. For more: https://soulpathsessions.com

Brenda Littleton, MA

As an educator & counselor based in social justice, personal literacy, eco & depth psychology, Brenda has worked with thousands of students and clients in their wholeness journey. She holds a graduate degree in education, post-graduate studies in counseling, and depth psychology at the doctoral level and is certified in coaching, trauma and psycho-biotics. Blending modalities of attachment theory, somatic healing, active imagination, dream work, restorative education, & place-based learning, she empahsizes the link between the mind-body-spirit-earth relationship for the healing.

Brenda's has served as a university program director of graduate studies, a clinical counselor for domestic violence & trauma recovery, a behavioral specialist in schools, & is a successful coach of executives, creatives and entrepreneurs. She is a reiki master, writer, speaker & continues in a lineage of Druidic animistic prayer circles. For more: https://www.brendalittleton.com

Acknowledgments:

Original Music composed by Zach Meints

The Soul Path Sessions Podcast is produced by Homeless Betty Productions

PLEASE SUBSCRIBE ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCAST APP TO LISTEN TO FUTURE EPISODES. THANK YOU...AND REMEMBER TO FOLLOW YOUR SOUL, IT KNOWS THE WAY!

Episode 9 Description

Living a more soulful life involves evaluating and re-evaluating our perspectives. It is a path we learn to walk with intention and attention. The destination is the journey itself. This week's Soul Path Sessions podcast deals with aging and going from role to soul: who we are when we are controlled by ego and who we strive to become, informed by soul, when we stay on that path. Deborah and Brenda's conversation covers a range of topics from how the ego begins to share control with the soul as we age, to how anger, grief and perspective change as we get older. The roles we embrace in life start to soften and as we embrace the influence of soul, we begin to view our choices through a more inclusive lens.

Chapters & Links

00:01:02 - The Inner Work of Aging

https://conniezweig.com/

00:05:49 - Aging Rituals: Falling Out of Grace

http://www.sobonfu.com/articles/book-reviews/spirituality-and-healthy-book-review-for-falling-out-of-grace-by-sobonfu-some/

00:11:45 - Grief and Soul Work

https://chopra.com/articles/8-ways-to-heal-your-soul-after-a-loss/

00:14:09 - Getting Older With Soul

https://www.beatricewood.com/

00:20:55 - Working With Anger Soulfully

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/some-assembly-required/201701/8-strategies-work-through-anger-and-resentment

00:30:11 - Serving Up Soul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwmgRie3BKo

ACKNOWLEDGMENTS

Original music by Zach Meints

The Soul Path Sessions podcast is produced by Homeless Betty Productions

Announcer: (00:08)

Welcome to the Soul Path Sessions podcast with Deborah Meints-Pierson and Brenda Littleton. Brenda is an educator and counselor rooted in Jungian and eco psychology, she helps her clients understand the importance of the mind, body, spirit, and earth relationship for healing. Deborah is a licensed psychotherapist and has been trained in traditional and sacred psychology, exploring from the ground up what makes our human experience meaningful, wholesome, and enlightening. Deborah and Brenda invite you to accompany them on a soul path journey as they explore the possibilities of living a more soulful life as therapists, seekers, and lovers of fate.

Deborah: (00:50)

Welcome to soul path sessions. I'm Deborah Meints-Pierson. I'm here today with Brenda Littleton, and we're going to be talking about the inner work of aging role to soul. I'm gonna hand it to you, Brenda.

Brenda: (01:02)

Thank you, Deborah. I love the idea of talking about role to soul in the sense of aging, the inner work of aging, and which is, um, a, the title of Connie Zweig's new book, inner work of age, shifting from, uh, role to soul. It is from a depth psychological perspective of looking at the advantages of aging, as well as identifying, uh, the resistances in as she very easily points out the different categories of resistances that if we avoid and, um, ignore and repress these certain stages of life, that we actually do ourselves a disservice in not fully coming into our soul's purpose. It reminds me, um, in one of our earlier podcasts, I mentioned James Hillman's work on the threshold of reaching 60 and, um, briefly reiterating his mandate, his, his position that when the ego reaches the threshold of 60. So this means maybe 58, 59 to 63.

Brenda: (02:23)

The ego actually gets to the point of understanding and accepting that the way one has been the way it's performed over and over again, basically gives you the same reaction, the same end result, the same effect. And if one is not happy with that, there's nothing more that the ego is going to try. It's already tried everything and it's done it really, really well. So the ego says, I'm going to start stepping back. I'm going to, uh, take more of a, a pause. And in some way I liken this too, the tide going out and exposing more real estate mm-hmm and then soul says, well, ego, the conscious world ego is actually giving me some space to take up to fall in, to, to roll in, to soul in. And when the soul flows in unlike ego, which is very efficient of negotiating its way and putting up with certain conditions that may not be absolute the best for life and healthy, the soul says, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're not going to adjudicate or negotiate. We're going to be true to ourselves. And that's where we have as Connie, as AIG, um, actually reiterates that we have a second, um, coming home, we have a second midlife crisis only now, instead of relying on ego to be more forceful, to be more forthright, to be more focused, soul comes in. And, um, in many ways it's an avalanche.

Deborah: (04:11)

Yeah. I mean, I piggybacking off that, I think a lot of times what brings us into that crisis, um, or that opportunity is loss and it can be physical loss. It can be the loss of loved ones. It can be, um, facing something that is like the ocean greater than ourselves. And we had this illusion, um, that our beauty to quote Ursula LA queen, our beauty doesn't come just with our hormones anymore. Mm-hmm , it comes from like, it does to a young person, it comes from the person we need to be to face loss. And that sweeps us away. It's such overwhelming feeling, just one phone called away from having our life changed forever. So I think these initiations can be brutal and inevitable. And I don't think we talk about them enough, you know? Well,

Brenda: (05:08)

I think most of us, most of our midlife, well since being a kid, uh, our Western civilization is about avoiding pain. Yeah. And making it better and fixing it as opposed to really sitting with something so overwhelmingly painful and getting comfortable with the uncomfortable. So, as you've mentioned, when we reach a point of age, a maturity loss is what's going to be, um, the crack in the cosmic egg. And instead of the light coming in, as I like to say, it's our opportunity for our light to seep out.

Deborah: (05:49)

Yeah. I, I love that. Um, there would be some form of ritual that honors that I know, I mean, in our culture, we do have funerals, but we don't really have we for people, our loved ones. And those are really important, but we don't always have funerals for ourselves. And I know one of my best teachers, Bon Fu so may a wonderful, um, shaman from, um, the DRA tribe of west Africa came into my life when I was quite young. And she taught us how the old and the young are connected. And when we were getting older, we're heading back into the mystery and the young are just coming from the mystery. So we're like children. And in this journey, back into the Dow or to the unknown, the mystery, we're going to have times where we're gonna feel like we're falling out of grace.

Deborah: (06:45)

And that's one of her books falling out of grace. And she taught us how to do grief rituals. She, she taught us how to gather and all of us with the express intention of honoring our grief. And it wasn't just thought, or keep you with my thoughts and prayers. It was like a bowl of dirt. And we put our face in it in our village. You just put your face in the dirt, but just, you put your face in the dirt and you cry and you cry as, and there's someone that's holding you. So you make mud, you make mud from your tears. Yeah. It makes extremely real well. Someone is you have two attendance that are just with you just holding that space where you lean forward and you cry into the earth and you come up with a, a face full of dirt and someone very tenderly wipes, your tears in your dirt. And it, so your face is, is held like a child. And then from that place, you pick up a sword. This is very fierce. We actually had an XCA , which is quite cool. And you strike a pose and you cut your ties with who you've been. Mm

Brenda: (08:03)

Cord cutting ceremony.

Deborah: (08:04)

Yeah. Yeah. I

Brenda: (08:04)

Had one of those and I had a

Deborah: (08:06)

Wild. Yeah. It's very muscular. Yeah. And then once you've done that, then you've had the courage to walk across th the threshold into the mystery. You're then escorted to a place where there's water and you're bathed. In my case, it was, this fountain had in my FRA, I've actually gone in my pool doing this. And, and you're wrapped in a sheet

Brenda: (08:29)

Like a shroud

Deborah: (08:30)

Uhhuh and you're held, or baby you're Cod like, you know, that innocent baby or the shroud. They're very similar. They, yeah. And you're, you're held that way. And once you've done this ritual, it's so powerful because there's this innocence of knowing you don't know, and you just were honest and it's a very innocent place. Like the seed I, I here in my essential form and I don't know what I'll become, but I know what I can no longer be.

Brenda: (09:00)

So you're doing this, not alone. You're doing this in you're being seen and watched and heard and held by another human being.

Deborah: (09:07)

Yeah. Usually it's a group of women. Okay. Who that I performed it with. And so just the simple act of being allowed to cry and not stopped and walk through it is so important. So when we say people, my thoughts and prayers are with you. That is important, but there also needs a for me, a place to be physically connected to grief and loss.

Brenda: (09:33)

Yeah. And not fix it. I'm so tired and done with this whole attitude of if I just rearrange my thoughts and I'll be in a better place. And, um, without the somatic work of really honoring the pain and the grief and going through the, just as you go through the actions to put on clothes and choose you, go through the actions to deal with grief and pain and sorrow.

Deborah: (09:58)

Yeah. And they, and they don't have a time table. Really. I mean, as a grief counselor, I know from hospice, they say, when you lose someone you love it's 18 to 36 months to put it in perspective, not to get over it, but to put your loss somehow to remap your life. Um, so this inner work is the inevitability that what you love will be taken from you. Some of us get our initiations very young, but if you live long enough, you're gonna get old quoting my great-grandmother. And you're most definitely gonna lose your best friend, your parents, brother, sister.

Brenda: (10:34)

I used to say, well, perhaps I still say, but not so frequently that I'm defined by death. I was, um, my life changed when my brother died at age three when I was three and he was a younger brother. And then it just started the whole, the whole thing of death. And, and every time a death happened, there was a major physical change in the world. And, um, and I re I remember speaking to your point of, of grief and the amount of time my mother had died when I was 28. And she actually had told me since I was age four or five, that she was gonna die before the age of 50. And she died. Wow. Yeah. She died at 48. I was 28 years old and took me 18 months to, after her death to become a, um, I was before I was able to even think of her death. And then I immediately, within two months I started therapy, my first therapy. Yeah. And young and work.

Deborah: (11:34)

Yeah. Invitation. Yes. To dissolve in a loving space. Yeah. Yeah. You're

Brenda: (11:41)

The, but it was the death. Yeah. You know, again, it's the death that allowed the birth.

Deborah: (11:45)

Yeah. Yeah. So when we talk about the inner work of soul, I mean, those people listening who are grieving right now know exactly what we're talking about. You can't go back to who you've been. You are forever changed. Yeah.

Brenda: (12:00)

And who do you wanna be?

Deborah: (12:01)

And sometimes you don't know. I mean, there is a place for not knowing for a while. Not, not knowing for a while. And that's okay.

Brenda: (12:08)

So my, my question to myself that I've never really shared before was, or is, are we always remembering, you know, even in that confusion, even in that space of feeling a collapse, even that space of what's, what's the use, like, why mm-hmm , you know, is, is that not also part of the remembering of, of being one self wing, allowing that sense of moving from role from the egoic, uh, conscious I have to survive, this is what I'm good at. Yeah. This is my, my beliefs desires, dreams, and longings to moving into the more mature 60 plus of who am I really, you know, that sense of, of remembering.

Deborah: (12:59)

Yeah. I, I love that. I think on our adolescent show, we talked about the inner adolescent is curious and seeks new life. And I do think that's one of the opportunities. I mean, I was listening to a show this morning on this American life podcast about a recent shooting, terrible classroom shooting, and a couple who go out and they do nothing. They're retired and they do nothing, but just be present to hold people, to talk to people, listen to people. Um, this gives their life meaning even if you head out, uh, and you don't quite know where you're going, there'll be a sense of wanting for a lot of us to want to heal ourselves through connecting in meaningful ways. And that's so important to the conversation is to be able to heal in a meaningful way and come back into life crippled.

Brenda: (13:55)

So meaningful ways, such as finding that latent, quiet, polite part of ourselves that we've kind of left to the side that we invite back in, or

Deborah: (14:09)

I don't know, sometimes it just comes out like, I, it, for truly Greek grief stricken person to be around other people who get it, the other initiated is really important. Yeah. And, um, for those of us who are going through just, you know, getting older and not being able to do cartwheels anymore, um, or wanting to do the same kind of work we were doing, I think it's really good to engage in a creative process. Mm-hmm , uh, to really formalize, think about, create place on a page, to what really matters to me. What are my core values? I mean, maybe you can't answer it right away. Um, one of my heroes in life is Beatrice wood who has a Potter. Yeah. Um, lived up in Ojai. She lived to be 105, and I had the good fortune to meet her

Brenda: (14:56)

Lots of young lovers,

Deborah: (14:58)

Lots of young lovers and chocolates, young men. Um, but what really made her sing in my ear was when she said, when I wake up in the morning, she, I think she was interviewed when she was a hundred. Um, and she said, I see an old man in the mirror. And I put lipstick on that, man. And I put, she had these great big Indian earrings from, you know, her India and her, sorry. And she'd braided her long gray prayed. And then she'd put on her shoes and she'd go down to the kiln. And she was a Potter and she did these marvelous GLS. And she couldn't wait. The little girl in her was just strong. And she came into this in her like her sixties. So she didn't really find her passion until much later in life. And she did some sort of profane Bo uh, pottery too. And then I had a chance to speak to her and she's, she's on YouTube. If you wanna see this marvelous Beatrice wood who wrote the book. Sometimes I shock myself.

Brenda: (15:58)

In Ohio, California

Deborah: (15:59)

In Ohio, California. Um, she talks about the four CS getting older, and one is to remain curious, uh, to be compassionate to yourself and others and what they're going through, um, to, to be, uh, comedic. She, one of her great lines is I broke the bowl of my heart and laughter fell out,

Brenda: (16:24)

Oh, that's beautiful.

Deborah: (16:25)

And she'd lost friends and lovers and you live to be a hundred and something you're gonna most people, you know. Yeah. Uh, and then so stay connected to life. And so sometimes we go out there like a, a blind bagger, you know, we, we just go out and try different things. We have, we experiment with what brings us back to life.

Brenda: (16:46)

And for me, that experimentation always is situated in nature in even if it's a, a, a potted plant or, um, seeds of basal that, that you've given me. Yeah. Um, it's yeah, it's, it's, I, I was listening to my own sorrow regarding some recent shootings and just walking and listening to a podcast on, um, on grief. And, and I was able to walk an extra mile as I was listening, cuz I was more curious about listening to the podcast and ending my walk and had two dogs and uh, the desert dust coming up. Um, and I just found so much more soulless and acceptance and space around me being in nature, surrounded by CSO and Joshua trees. And um, these, these other bushes that, that had these little tiny pink flowers on my point is not so much what it looked like, but it was feeling this wider sense of containment.

Brenda: (18:04)

Like I wasn't in a little room in my bed mm-hmm which I can do everything in my little room in my, I can write books in my bed, but being out in nature and, and seeing, and hearing and, um, being adjacent to a larger energy mm-hmm , uh, it kind of puts things in perspective for me. Yeah. Uh, in the sense that it's not all me and, and this huge grief I have is relative to coming in this, turning this, this road and then seeing a recently fallen Joshua tree just right in my way and thinking, well, I'm just all part of it. You know, mm-hmm, , I'm just part of it. And, and yes, I do like the creative and, and I do participate in being creative and FA finding that sense of connection in my, my true source. But there is something bigger than me. That's still on this planet other than some cosmos out there, some favorite constellation that I go to mm-hmm but the nature, I just find, even, even with the grief in nature, you know? Yeah. Like my favorite 5,000 year old trees being logged on Vancouver island. Oh. Um, you know, that causing a lot of pain, but still the idea of, uh, nature, um, in dealing with my loss and grief mm-hmm

Deborah: (19:23)

well, it's big enough. Yeah. So if we think of, uh, moving from role to soul we're in these roles and we're pretty well defined and I'm not against those roles, we might be defined by our work or being parents, um, in some way by our religion. But when that breaks open, it becomes bigger. Mm-hmm and what can hold you when it becomes bigger, the good earth and the big sky mm-hmm and the, and the trees and digging and getting your hands. I think that it was Poisonwood Bible, Barbara King,

Brenda: (19:54)

Sal pink king Sal were, yeah.

Deborah: (19:56)

The image of the mother who in the end is lost everything really. Yeah. But she's out gardening way into the night, you know, just by the moon, by the moon. Yeah. That stayed with me that, that I've been out, uh, in the wild winds recently, but just how the necessity of grief is huge and, and the world of humans does not make sense when it hits us.

Brenda: (20:21)

Well, I'm wondering if, what you're saying is activating in me, this thought that for decades, our culture has been one of happiness and joy and young youth. And, um, if it's catching up with us that now the portion of grief that we've deferred is now in full bloom, because more, I mean, each week we're having more and more assaults on our grief factor. You know, the grief pendulum is definitely swinging wildly.

Deborah: (20:55)

You talked to me about this disowned when I disown, um, you saying when you disown your hatred, what happens to it?

Brenda: (21:05)

Yeah, well, I recently, um, had a birthday and I have this ritual where I go and I, I swim in a, in a very strong moving Creek. It's more like a river actually, but it puts me to test to, um, get back out of the river where I got into it. And to me, it's, it's ceremonial, it's sacred. It's it allows me to see my strengths and my willingness to exert myself. And during this last week I was, I was participating in this activity and I realized, oh my gosh. And I get these downloads when I'm doing this exertion. I have been disassociated, dissociating and dismissing, uh, evil my entire life that I I'm one of these people that believe everyone is good. I, I believe in the soul of that, the goodness of people mm-hmm that good people do bad things. And occasionally those bad things are horrible.

Brenda: (22:06)

Mm-hmm , but basically everyone's good. And that evil kind of died out with the Lord of the rings and first world war. And somehow in there, my naive, my naivete, um, was comp. I had this compensation of, of just Dison and putting whatever I believed, um, was evil. Uh, I just C totally ignored it. And so I was basically, uh, building my shadow, my own shadow work and in the, in my own, you know, my own unconscious, but that fed into the collective unconscious. And so I had this, this, this, this complete download of realizing I was donating and contributing my part of evil. That is mine, that, that I can, if I am in better relationship with, I can own it. I, I just, it doesn't own, it doesn't control me. It doesn't, um, come out as evil, but if I ignore it and I relegate it away, like I'm not an evil person that I don't have any bad in me.

Brenda: (23:15)

I'm a good girl. It is. It goes into the giant fuel tank of, uh, available evil for people for, from a youngian perspective. Mm-hmm, evil comes to visit you. You're not an evil soul per se, but it is a similar to, and schizophrenia comes to visit or anxiety comes to visit mm-hmm we host these, these sensations, these archetypes, so evil will come into visit, but not in my life. Oh, no. I was like, mm-hmm I? And I, I gave it away. So in, and I, I was thinking of the current war, uh, when I was looking at the fields that would normally be planted by now mm-hmm are, are completely littered with bombs and tanks and there's,

Brenda: (24:02)

There's no food growing. People are going to starve. Mm-hmm um, so I re I was working on the, the form of how, how does evil being visited upon our lands these days? Yeah. Yeah. And there's I, and I saw my direct relationship with participating by denying. Hmm. And I was on a conference this, this morning with, uh, some deaf psychologists and saying our work is about bringing into the conversation, our own shadow work and saying, yes, I am. That I can, I could kill for that. Mm-hmm yes, I am the shooter. And, and really, really owning the fact that it is possible.

Deborah: (24:46)

It's like that tick not ha poem where he says, I'm everything, I'm the fish, I'm the worm. I'm the girl who's been raped. I'm the rapist. It's, it's been able to see that part of us. It may not come out, like shooting someone, but we've thought about it. Yeah. And I think, you know, ness is ness, a young woman who talks about the art of difficult conversations. She says, when you're carrying that energy, or you're really off, and you're, you're, you're feeling pretty hateful towards the other. You're not listening. Mm-hmm,

Brenda: (25:18)

,

Deborah: (25:19)

I've been that person. And, and I've felt those violent thoughts towards them. And they maybe felt them towards me and the simple art of owning that and saying, I am being very evil, violent in my thoughts. I'm completely closed off. I, I wish your demise. I mean, it's, it's just, it's natural and it's normal. But once we can say that as humans, it's something we do like eating and going to the bathroom. We have parts of us that go very, very dark. Yeah. And we don't care about other people suffering and we can walk right by it. And that's a normal thing. Like prejudice is a normal thing, but if you don't talk about it, it turns into something we deny, but it continues.

Brenda: (26:06)

Yeah. And it will continue as long as we deny it.

Deborah: (26:09)

Right. And I do think the very old person , I know CLA Cola, Estes talks about this and the power of Crohn knows that, you know, you'll see in somebody the very old, that sort of innocent, glimer this experienced glimer of knowing in any group that people aren't telling the truth. Mm-hmm cause it's just the way they are, they're putting on their persona and they'll say something like, oh, it doesn't always necessarily like that. You know, the way you're saying it, that you're such a good person.

Brenda: (26:44)

And especially the, the, the conversation I've been hearing lately. Oh, well, there's, you know, there's just always the other side of gun laws, you know, there's always, there's always the, well, let's look at the other side. I go, well, tell me the other side of killing 18 children, 19 children, and two teachers. And mm-hmm yeah. Yeah. So in many, you know, it does sound judgemental this form of discernment. Um, but I do believe as long as we continue in a culture of being polite and not saying what is real, um, because we don't have the skill set, we don't practice the skills of holding those tensions of opposites. Yeah. We take it personally, as opposed to critical thinking where we listen to the, the three main points of a conversation. Yeah. And look at data as support, to say as an example, this is why I'm trying to show this to you so that you can see the bigger picture. Yeah. We, um, close down and personalize it and become so defensive that there's just absolutely no way in, hence no way out.

Deborah: (27:55)

Yeah. And so often it really is the, what's the most logical step to take like semiautomatic weapons, you know, really looking at what we can possibly have a conversation. Are they really necessary for, you know, civilians to have, um, but, but like Seren nest talks about trying to arm wrestle somebody who's not listening, uh, to me is a form of extreme ignorance. I'd rather take quiet action. Mm-hmm, , um, not quiet necessarily not having a conversation, but I don't wanna waste my time with somebody who doesn't wanna hear what I have to say. Yeah.

Brenda: (28:33)

Choosing, um, it's the idea of eliminating, um, based onion. Um,

Deborah: (28:42)

And it's also the lack of, I'm not as afraid as I get older. Yeah. I mean, I've got, you know, who knows, you know, I, I'm not gonna add 40 years of my age and still be here. I don't think unless I'm like Beatrice would. Um, but this idea, I think from going from world to soul, my soul says, oh, what's the best way to, to really create change. And I'm old enough to know that it's probably not yelling at people who don't agree with me. Right. It's it's to understand how laws are made it's to understand who you talk to, the letters you write. I've written quite a few in my day, um, where I can have influence I do. And that's, I'm less afraid to take that action. Mm-hmm

Brenda: (29:22)

and I'm also less afraid to take action in the idea of looking at the whole system as to why the affect is. So, um, why, why there are behaviors and actions as a, as a culture creates so much loss, stress and grief

Deborah: (29:41)

Mm-hmm

Brenda: (29:42)

Yeah, because it's, it is avoidable. Mm. But it it's, it's based. I mean, in so many ways, I see the, the, the focus and the goal of, uh, not creating difficult situations to be comfortable with ends up creating difficult situations that we have to learn how to be comfortable with mm-hmm like we end up getting what we try to avoid.

Deborah: (30:11)

Yeah. Yeah. I, I know some of us are meant to stand on a stage and speak to a lot of people and some of us are just made to pay attention, um, to what's happening on a small scale mm-hmm . And so often in my work as a healer, um, I deal with, you know, broken kids, um, at the most basic level before they become them, , they're one of us. And sometimes, uh, it's just being willing to be tuned into somebody's disenfranchisement, uh, to be a presence in their life to be a mentor, to be a big brother. Sister is, it may be it it's like Carolyn May says maybe my role is to make soup on Adam street. Maybe it isn't. When I go from roll to soul, I may quiet down my feverish mind and just see what's happening in the room. I'm where I am. And there have been many times where I've just seen someone suffering someone's left out mm-hmm , uh, someone needs some cooling off time. I don't wanna run past them cuz I'm on my mission. So, so these kinds of events, in addition to being horrible, have the capacity to make me look at moments with people as opportunities to love them

Brenda: (31:45)

And ourselves

Deborah: (31:46)

Too, and ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. We connect

Brenda: (31:48)

The idea of looking at the projection of looking towards others. Um, from my experience has also been as I'm working and working and working and, and serving others as a, as a, as a therapist and counselor and coach, I realize, oh, that's really me that I'm wanting that's that's the work that I'm doing for them. that I need to do for myself. and so it's it's um, it, it really, you know, when I was starting to deal with my, okay, come on, like, let me get, let me get close to the shadow stuff. I, I also remembered this, this four steps of me doing the work for me, um, as well as working for others, but looking at my, creating an intention. Um, and then once I have that idea of the, the new pattern I want, or the it's not so much fighting the old and getting rid of the old pattern, but working toward new neural transmitters, neuro pathways for myself in new ways, mm-hmm, setting the atten intention

Deborah: (33:03)

Thinking

Brenda: (33:04)

Different, thinking different, and then paying attention to it, like giving myself, making sure that I pay attention to the intention mm-hmm and then I get to this, these places that are very familiar, these boundaries that are, think, nah, I don't really wanna go beyond this boundary. Mm-hmm and it's like, no, you have to exert yourself. So extending

Deborah: (33:26)

Extension. Yeah.

Brenda: (33:28)

Yeah. Making sure that I, I know it's uncomfortable. I'm gonna try it even if it's just for a minute mm-hmm and then I'm gonna create this new watermark. So extending my comfort zone and then afterwards integrating all of those, those other three into, oh, who am I now? Mm-hmm like, how is this different mm-hmm who, oh, okay. Oh yeah. This is what it feels like. This isn't what I, this is who I am.

Deborah: (33:59)

This sounds that's right now becomes it becomes your way of expressing becomes your new sort of identity mm-hmm and it's much more soulful. Yeah. So I'd like to explore in our next, um, in in our next, uh, podcast, just this whole idea of like this integration. Great.

Brenda: (34:17)

I'll meet you there.

Deborah: (34:19)

All right.

Announcer: (34:26)

And that concludes this week's episode of the Soul Path Sessions podcast with Deborah Meints-Pierson and Brenda Littleton. If you'd like to hear more about living a more soulful life, please subscribe to our channel on your favorite podcast app and be sure to check out the show notes and links below. For more information from Deborah visit soulpathsessions.com and for Brenda, brendalittleton.com. Thank you for listening, and remember to follow your soul, it knows the way.